Episode 39 – Girl Trouble
July 10, 2012 | Filed Under Episodes, Random | 5 CommentsTOPIC: Sexism in games and gamers
Guest: Caryn Vainio, UI artist at Uber Entertainment
I bet you haven’t heard enough about the Tomb Raider trailer debacle? How about Anita Sarkeesian and her “tropes vs women in videogames” kickstarter? Well, sit down for a spell and listen to our take on it, because us and the people we agree with tend to be right about most things.
I know some people are thinking this is a dead horse topic. No one is making you listen. But you should anyway. I can say with certainty that I’ve learned and changed lot since this whole thing started a few weeks ago at E3 and my eyes were opened more even in the course of this podcast conversation. Caryn explains some pretty basic but powerful things in a way that might make a lightbulb go on for you too.
I know this episode comes a little late to the conversation but it was actually recorded two weeks ago and a pretty major edit was required and the editor (me) is also crunching like crazy to ship a game. The edit (you’ll know it when you get there) had nothing to do with the topic of sexism but rather how games portray other real-life horrors and Mike brought up the issue regarding one particularly, belligerent Gamespot reporter’s take on the game I am working on.
My (edited out) opinions on the topic aren’t particularly surprising, if you were ever to hear them. I continue to do Reanimators because my voice is not owned by any company and I think these conversations about games can be helpful to both us and the listeners. But in exchange for that, it is very important for me to steer well clear of ever being mistaken for a mouthpiece for any company I work for or have worked for. Companies already have people for that. Me? I get hired to make shit look good. My opinions are my own but there is no prudent way for me to weigh in on a controversy of a game I am currently working on, especially when it’s not out yet. So that part is gone and we resume with where that conversation segued too.
Also, sorry for the PC fan noise at parts. I was (unsuccessfully) trying out a new mic arrangement. My bad.
Show Notes (LOTS of show notes for this one):
Really deep episode. I’m on the same side with the thing, that rape is something that is maybe not the best thing to use in this kind of scenario. And don’t get me wrong, I don’t want to belittle the psychological devastation that rape causes, but it just rubbed me the wrong way how Caryn (in my opinion) belittled a little bit the violence that men can face. I once wathed a document from TV where guys, who have been assaulted without any reason told how it affecter their psyche. They fear of going out alone, have constant nightmares, all kinds of physical trauma that causes psychological trauma, paranoia etc. Just a point, that also men can face really really horrible violence, that pretty much messes their psyche forever and is almost compared to rape. I personally think violence against men are portrayed (in entertainment) in such way, that it’s easy to think that it’s no biggie to get your ass handed to you without any reason when you’re just coming home from a bar or something. Otherwise I think Caryn was a great guest (no beef here!).
But as I said: a really deep episode. My 2nd favourite after the episode about work in collision with one’s ethics and beliefs. This cast is truly becoming a great cast, where quantity is replaced with quality, keep on the good work mates!
Comment by Tomi K. — 08/10/2012 #
I understand the point made here, but I really can’t understand why reification of women is such a huge problem, while trivialization of violence is such an awesome tool to good games…
While the problems related to the integrity of female individuality were perceived and adressed (not talking about this podcast specifically, but in gaming society as a general), trivialization of violence and dehumanization of the enemy are so acceptable and normal!!!
I can understand why rape is considered a “gender specific violence”, but why isn’t also murder? 90% of last year’s murders were commited against males…
My point here is: Why drug/money/war related murder can be considered a valid character background and why rape can’t?!
I do agree that many developers use “cheap” tactics to emulate a linkage betwen character and consumer, but in my opnion looks like there was some bigger outrage on behalf of women discrimination in games…
We have all sorts of discriminations and cheap violence on games and I agree with Steve Bowler, this is an problem in our society and ALL of them should be adressed.
Well, maybe I’m wrong, maybe women discrimination is a more urgent problem in our society, maybe it’s just sleepiness, but I do think game Dev’s should start portraying violence in a more mature approach.
But this was another great podcast, made me think really!
Thank you again.
Comment by som1 — 08/12/2012 #
I have to say this… I just made to the part you guys adress the issue of general lack of innovation in game development (with a brief comment about realistic portraid of the war).
So I must say: You guys are awesome
This podcast was perfect.
Comment by som1 — 08/12/2012 #
som1 – Love that you had to stop listening to comment while in the middle of the episode! It means we definitely hit on some compelling conversation.
Tomi K – I think the big difference between focusing on violence against women vs men is that we are an industry dominated by males. So when we do terrible things to male avatars, there is some psychological understanding and years of male power fantasies driving that vision. So while I think a lot of those tropes are tired, I wouldn’t say they are as exploitative or weighted as the much more common reality of violence against women in modern society.
I 100% agree with you though that this, along with our ethics/religion episode, being some of our best. They allow for a much broader conversation but with a more singular objective.
Comment by lightbombmike — 08/13/2012 #
lightbombmike – Yeah that’s a valid point. I guess I missed a little bit of that point there while working (listening while pushing keyframes
).
And hey: thanks for the Irrational Interviews tip. I had completely missed that one. Just a great stuff to listen while working!
Comment by Tomi K. — 08/14/2012 #